#Mellow Gets Sadder Every Day
September 29, 2006 11:50 pm Gaming, Miscellaneous, Nintendo DS
There’s a point at which one begins to wonder how they can take themselves seriously when they claim their channel is all about keeping it calm. It’s gotten quite sad. Mellow’s just a hangout for warezers, pirates and troublemakers, anymore. They cause trouble in the real channel, then they go to #mellow and behave, so they can convince themselves they’re really okay guys, and that it’s just the other channel’s fault that they’re trolling.
Sadly, I begin to worry that they’ve gotten so caught up in their drama and lies that they won’t ever admit to themselves the damage they’ve done, and that the way the split will end is when the DS is over. We’d lose half a dozen good developers that way.
It’d be nice if they’d grow up, get over the drama and come back. Joat, I’m looking straight at you.
September 30th, 2006 at 3:51 pm
Just ignore them. You\’re only being a part of the drama if you post messages like this. Did you realize that?
September 30th, 2006 at 4:25 pm
It’s only been going on because everyone sits quietly waiting for it to blow over.
October 1st, 2006 at 4:14 am
.. Though, I\’ve seen you suggest otherwise. But nevertheless, what do you suggest instead of waiting? When you tell them to change and they don\’t, then I think that strategy .. simply does not work. Just a tip: look for a middleground.
October 1st, 2006 at 3:33 pm
What middle ground? It’s a bunch of accusations and nonsense, and they’re demanding that I be de-opped. Nobody but the half dozen of them and the people who haven’t been around to see the nonsense takes them seriously. There’s no call for a middle ground; they just want their way, and they’re willing to cry, lie and spam to get it.
If we give an inch, that’ll encourage the behavior. What needs to happen is people need to start speaking up. It’s beginning, too; people are sick of the nonsense, and they’re starting to talk to others, trying to end it. There’s no reason for the rift; the myth is trivially easy to see through. I run bounties, I get people’s games published, I write tutorials, I release libraries, I teach people in channel, et cetera. If I was bad for the community, I would have been removed years ago. There’s a reason I got my op status back when I came back from my nine month hiatus. It’s not because I’m abusive.
I appreciate your opinion, but I disagree. I’ve been running communities online for almost 20 years. I’ve seen people like this come and go. They can’t admit to themselves what they’re doing or why they’re doing it, so they pat each other on the back for being guerrilla freedom fighters against the big bad oppressive oligarchy.
It’s absurd. They’ll tire themselves out sooner or later, and then come slinking back apologetically. Liran did two months ago, promising never to cause drama again (you can see how seriously he takes his promises) after the last time he left forever. Better they should be gone than that they should be taught that behaving this way gets them their way. Give them an inch and they’ll take a mile. This is a mistake we won’t make, and all the ops are in agreement on the topic.
If you have a middleground that does not involve teaching the spammer that spam makes him the winner, I’m all ears, but I confess I don’t believe it exists. The only person who’s permbanned is the bricker author. They can all come back once they get the stick out of their collective asses. Nobody will hassle them.
It’s all a myth.
October 2nd, 2006 at 2:37 pm
In my opinion, you have some inconsistencies in the way you talk about this issue. Feel free to correct them though:
- \”It’s only been going on because everyone sits quietly waiting for it to blow over.\” (You suggest action)
vs – \”If we give an inch, that’ll encourage the behavior.\” (You suggest we don\’t do or give a damn about their actions.)
- \”..and that the way the split will end is when the DS is over.\” (You say that it will never end if the things continue the way they\’re going.)
vs – \”They’ll tire themselves out sooner or later, and then come slinking back apologetically.\” (You say that it will end spontaniously.)
Anyway, do you care enough about this issue?
No. Then why bother bitching about it anyway? You don\’t want to give them the illusion that they succeed in anything, yet, you give them attention by blogging this. With all your experience, you should know that they feed on this kind of attention.
Yes. I don\’t know how socially interactive you are besides taking part in long internet discussions, but I\’m talking about solving disagreements within a group. Any relational problem does NOT solve itself. Even more, it does NOT help if both parties keep adding fuel to the fire. THAT is a myth, deeply believed by both parties involved. And perhaps they will tire out themselves and return, but don\’t take this act in the way you want to take it: they didn\’t return because they admit their mistakes. They returned for the scene, not because they stopped disliking you. If you don\’t care about them liking you, then it\’s really easy to give them the invisible wall, really, no need to poke their devilside again if they don\’t explicitly poke yours. They\’re here for the scene, and as long as they don\’t cause any problems again, you\’re content, right?
October 2nd, 2006 at 4:10 pm
> – \”It’s only been going on because everyone sits quietly waiting for it to
> blow over.\” (You suggest action)
>
> vs – \”If we give an inch, that’ll encourage the behavior.\” (You suggest
> we don\’t do or give a damn about their actions.)
Sorry. I could have been clearer. What I mean is, we should take action, but that action should not be to capitulate to nonsense. To capitulate would only make it worse.
> – \”..and that the way the split will end is when the DS is over.\” (You
> say that it will never end if the things continue the way they\’re going.)
>
> vs – \”They’ll tire themselves out sooner or later, and then come
> slinking back apologetically.\” (You say that it will end spontaniously.)
Well, no. Yes, I’m worried it’ll be until the DS is over, but that’s not “never ending.” Portable consoles have a 3-4 year lifespan. The DS is one year in. As far as slinking back in I was actually referring to the drama crowd, half of whom have come back in the last week quietly, pretending nothing happened. I’m happy to see they’re just letting it pass. More will come.
My worry is simply that it’ll just take a long time to get them all back. That would be a pity.
> Anyway, do you care enough about this issue?
It’s more than one issue you’re describing. Do I care about the spammer drama? No. Do I care about the developers who have no grudges who are in #mellow because the spammer tells them anything else is ethical suicide? Yes: they’re missing out, and to a smaller degree, we’re missing out for not having them.
So it’s a mixed answer.
> Yes. I don\’t know how socially interactive you are besides taking part
> in long internet discussions, but I\’m talking about solving
> disagreements within a group.
Yeah, but there aren’t disagreements within the group. This is a few outsiders causing drama, nothing more.
> Any relational problem does NOT solve itself.
Agreed; this is why I suggest action.
> Even more, it does NOT help if both parties keep adding fuel to the fire.
Yeah, I just don’t believe that metaphor applies here. We’ve kicked back and waited for more than a year. Just how long shall we continue, before realizing that remaining quiet doesn’t have any effect?
Could it be that asking people to stand up and say “this isn’t true” is closer to throwing water on a fire? In those cases where people have actually done so, the drama has dropped dramatically. I don’t believe all speech is fuel, personally.
> And perhaps they will tire out themselves and return, but don\’t take
> this act in the way you want to take it: they didn\’t return because
> they admit their mistakes.
I’m not sure why you think I want to take it that way. Indeed, very rarely do they admit their mistakes; rather they promise not to make new ones. Indeed, if you re-read, you’ll notice that the specific reason I worry that it’ll take a long time for them to return is /because/ they can’t admit their mistakes.
I wish you wouldn’t attempt to ascribe motives to me.
> They returned for the scene, not because they stopped disliking you.
Yes, I’m aware of that.
> If you don\’t care about them liking you, then it\’s really easy to
> give them the invisible wall, really, no need to poke their devilside
> again if they don\’t explicitly poke yours.
Did you manage to miss what caused this post? Or did you just think releasing a demo with my photo and a bunch of slander isn’t poking my side, so to speak?
> They\’re here for the scene, and as long as they don\’t cause
> any problems again, you\’re content, right?
Yes. That’s what I’ve said all along. That’s what I said in this post. That’s also not actually going to happen. I’ve been running communities online for nearly 20 years. I’ve seen this kind of thing happen quite often, usually not around me, but occasionally around me.
I’ve also watched some communities sit back and wait like you suggest. It never works. This community has been trying it for a year. It doesn’t work. People just escalate and escalate and escalate, because they feel like they’re getting away with it, and they’re trying to get their way.
I appreciate your position, but history does not bear it out, either in general or within this specific group of malcontents.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:15 am
Okay it\’s quite clear now. I just want to point out that I\’m NOT for sitting back and waiting. My point is, all the blaming and accusations are getting old and tiring (; this blogentry is no exception), this is true for BOTH sides, so it\’s time to take a step forward from all this bullshit and really accomplish something.
And IMHO, the whole point of experience and history is to learn from it, and prevent the mistakes from happening again.