That horrid little piracy-isn’t-theft meme is going around again
August 27, 2008 9:40 am General Interest, Miscellaneous, Rants[digg-reddit-me]An image version of the “piracy isn’t theft” meme which the pirates use to convince themselves they aren’t thieves is going around; apparently the fact that they keep going to jail as thieves isn’t enough to get it through to them that their insistance that there’s nothing wrong with what they’re doing doesn’t make it true. (I can’t tell you how sick I am of hearing pirates brag about how what everyone knows isn’t okay actually is.)
There’s a comic version of it which has gotten disappointingly popular on Reddit lately. I edited that comic.
Pederasts and pedophiles also say they’re not hurting anybody, and tell each other lies about the law. But I digress.
September 11th, 2008 at 7:27 am
Piracy isn’t theft. It doesn’t have to be theft to be wrong.
Pedophilia isn’t theft either.
September 12th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Don’t be retarded. Of course it’s theft. The law is clear on the point. I don’t know why you seem so desperate to think otherwise.
Nobody said it was theft because it was wrong.
October 1st, 2008 at 3:21 am
You are 100% right – piracy is theft; however copyright infringement is not seen as theft in the eyes if the law. So you are right and the meme is wrong.
October 1st, 2008 at 8:18 pm
“however copyright infringement is not seen as theft in the eyes if the law.”
There is a common misunderstanding of the 1985 Supreme Court decision which suggests that it is an eschewment of the status of copyright infringement as theft. The primary point of confusion is the Justice Harold Blackmun quote “interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud”, which taken out of context does seem to suggest this mythic status of copyright infringement as something other than fraud.
Putting the quote back into context reveals this as a clear misunderstanding of the justice’s opinion: (citing)
The phonorecords in question were not “stolen, converted or taken by fraud” for purposes of [section] 2314. The section’s language clearly contemplates a physical identity between the items unlawfully obtained and those eventually transported, and hence some prior physical taking of the subject goods. Since the statutorily defined property rights of a copyright holder have a character distinct from the possessory interest of the owner of simple “goods, wares, [or] merchandise,” interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud. The infringer of a copyright does not assume physical control over the copyright nor wholly deprive its owner of its use. Infringement implicates a more complex set of property interests than does run-of-the-mill theft, conversion, or fraud.
(end citation)
The germane issue he is raising is not that the comparison is invalid; rather, he is pointing out that the comparison is difficult. By the end of the text, it is clear that Justice Blackmun is actually discussing copyright infringement as a superset of theft; he is not dissociating them at all, but rather reversing the direction in the relationship that the two topics are typically presented (that theft is a case of copyright infringement, rather than that copyright infringement is a case of theft.)
Indeed, he is absolutely correct to see it so. However, I approach this from a practical standpoint: people are taught to feel bad about being a thief. Nobody cares about being a copyright infringer. Thus, it is most practical to present things in terms of theft.
It is a common misrepresentation of the Justice’s opinion that copyright infringement isn’t theft. Unfortunately, the further point from here is that there are tens of thousands of theft convictions for copyright infringers, because statute regards theft.
As such, anyone who falls for this red herring has also labelled themselves as someone who argues law based on what they heard, rather than actual case knowledge.
Please understand that whereas I sympathize that you are trying to make a point, I believe it to be critically important that you no longer present unfounded, unresearched opinions as fact. That sort of misinformation does a disservice to your peers.
Copyright infringement is absolutely, rigorously and unquestionably theft in the eyes of the law, and there is an enormous boatload of case law and precedent to back it up.
Please cite specific contrary opinion if you would enjoy to continue this debate.
October 1st, 2008 at 8:19 pm
Oh, sorry. The supreme court case in question is “Dowling v. United States”, 473 U.S. 207/1985.
October 12th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
It may be considered a form of theft in the US, but US law only applies to that country.
October 14th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
It’s a form of theft in every country in the United Nations. Looking at your IP address, I see that applies to you as well.
But, you’re right, there is a tiny slice of the planet which is unaffected.
October 15th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
No. It’s a form of copyright infringement, and against the law and wrong, but it’s not theft.
(Except in the US)
October 16th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
You can repeat that until you’re blue in the face, but that doesn’t make you correct. Try citing some law. You’ll be taken more seriously that way.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
Would you say that the U.S. District Court for Massachusetts erred in deciding the way they did in U.S. v. LaMacchia? I can’t tell if that decision’s interpretation of Dowling v. U.S. is the “red herring” you’re talking about. (I presume Dowling is the Blackmun opinion that you cited.)
And what of the NET Act?
December 16th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
Whoops, saw your citation for Dowling in the next post. =)
October 15th, 2009 at 11:46 pm
“hat horrid little piracy-isn’t-theft meme is going around again”
Truth hurts, doesn’t it?
Call it wrong, call it immoral – that I have no problem with – but calling it something factually wrong in a factual discussion and you WILL get called out and lose.
April 19th, 2011 at 2:14 am
Piracy is really bad, people don’t realize that when they download they take away money from the people who make all the stuff they steal. If those people can’t make money they wont be able to make what all those people so easily steal.